This is the type of outrageous arrogance that results from propping up Tarzan-like figures in Haiti. Now, Sean Penn is telling Haitians to leave Baby Doc alone, comparing the brutal U.S-backed, protected and funded criminal to America's Don King.




See also:

http://www.forumhaiti.com/t13875-bill-clinton-is-comfortable-posing-for-pictures-with-jean-claude-duvalier-why#116816
http://www.forumhaiti.com/t13832-the-puppet-the-dictator-and-the-president-haiti-today-and-tomorrow

Jaf

Let's be realistic .I don't like what Sean Penn said in this interview,but I doubt very much that he is an employee of Jean Claude Duvalier.Yes we must tell him to stay out of the internal affairs of haiti,but we must not forget what he is doing for the poors.I am not trying to excuse him for what he said ,but I can understand why ;since he was not in haiti during the dictature of the Duvaliers.As many other foreigners ,Sean Penn thinks that our priorities right now is to rebuild our country,but what he fails to realize that haiti can not be rebuild by foreigners.Only haitians can rebuild haiti.This reconstruction will be done only when all haitians feel they are together and the country belongs to all haitians without any distinction of class, color, origin and political affiliation.

Jean Claude Duvalier is not preaching reconciliation.The first thing is said when he returned to haiti is how his friends were killed,but he never said anything about the thousands of people who were brutally killed by the tonton macoutes and the military after his departure.Thus the obligation of the victims to pursue justice through the judicial system ,for this impunity to stop there can be no statute of limitation for crimes against humanity,such as those committed during the Duvaliers dictatorship.We should remind Sean Penn of what happened in Argentina,in Chile, in Paraguay ,in Nicaragua and in Egypt right now.Would he ask the Egyptians to leave Mubarack alone?Did he ask the iraquians to leave Sadham Hussein alone;or the lybians to leave Colonel Quadaffi alone?I think Sean Penn is perharps misinformed.I can not condone his plea for Jean Claude Duvlaier to be left alone,but I don't agree that he is an employee of the dictator.Let's show some gratitude and appreciation to those who are trying to help us even when they commit some mistakes.

sa se yon bel foto wi eske nou ka di Paul Farmer se anploye Aristide?se pousa mwen di fok nou apresye moun ki ap ede nou men lè yo fè erè.

Wozo,

I work in government. So, I know what happens when an event involving high officials is being planned. Well in advance these folks enquire to know who is going to be on the podium with them. So, it is no coincidence that Bill Clinton was seen smiling and shaking hands with Duvalier on that January 12th memorial in Titanyen and that, shortly thereafter, Sean Penn goes on tv in the USA, praising Martelly and, very astutely makes light of the Duvalier dictatorship. Martelly proceeds to spend a few thousand Euros going to Switzerland - were some of loot stolen by Duvalier is still up for grabs, on special conditions....and he declares "pardon for Baby Doc"....Hours later the Martelly - whom Clinton declares to be the most articulate Haitian leader of the past 30 years - seems to be recanting his own declaration. Puppet, puppet master, film director....a real Vaudeville!

Humanitarianism is BIG BUSINESS and BIG POLITICS. As I said before, those who think the CIA is still using the same old tactics of the 1960s need to awake. The current practice is "Manufacturing dissent". You will see a lot of folks agitating, pretending to criticize the empire....but when you least expect it, they are are called upon to defend the crimes of empire. This is exactly what role Hollywood, including Sean Penn, has been recruited to plan in Haiti recently. In France, they used Regis Debray in much the same way.

Paul Farmer is indeed at a crossroads. I predict that within less than a year he will have to make a clear and drastic decision about his collaboration with the Clintons. As you know, I have interviewed paul and have much respect for him.

see A GIANT STEP FOR MANKIND MADE IN HAITI:http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14726


However, he took a gamble when he was first considered for the post of Head if USAID - which did not come to past....but immediately after he became Clinton's man for the U.N. envoy position. I am sure Paul is trying his best to get some positives from this wicked situation. Every now and then you can see from the texts published by Partners in Health that he is struggling with the contradictions of his progressive vision and the real politiks that now enter his everyday life. I have no idea how Paul Farmer will come out of this. i can only wish him courage and inspiration.

You may refer to a U.N. document dating 2000 where the co-opted role they expect the NGOs to play in conquered territory is pretty much layed out in plain language. That's the role Sean Penn is playing and, if Paul Farmer is not very careful, soon Partners in Health will also be co-opted.

The empire does not joke! nor does it rests!

Jaf

I am not quoting Guy philippe as a stateman here,but I remember what he said:"There are times when we give more importance to the U.S.Embassy in Port-au-prince than it deserves."I have no doubt that the CIA is defending the interests of the United States which is in fact its role, but I realize many politicians of the third world countries like to blame the U.S. for the mismanagement of their economies,particularly those from the left.Did Bill Clinton know that Duvalier was going to be at the ceremony of Ti Tanyen;of course, but to combine this fact with Sean Penn's declaration to forgive Duvalier and Michel martelly trip to Switzerland to prove that it is a way to maintain control by the USA over haiti is,in my opinion too simplistic.

It could be that I am blinded by my admiration for the United States.I will admit that sometimes the foreign policy of the United States is contradictory ,but in this case I refuse to validate the theory that people like Paul farmer ,Sean Penn,Jimmy Carter,Bill Clinton and all the volunteers who are in haiti to help are agents of the CIA who are working to destabilize the country and perpetuate the sufferings of haitians.Maybe I am too naive ;However ,I can not admit that people like Paul Farmer and Jimmy Carter are so cynical.No Paul Farmer and jimmy carter are not defending the empire as you pretend.Do you know that Jimmy carter is the president who gave the Canal of panama back to Panama?Why did Bill clinton spend all the money to return Aristide to power?He did shake Aristide and Preval's hands many times also.

Yes Bill Clinton should not be on the podium at Ti tanyen shaking Duvalier's hand;It is a mistake,but not a conspiracy as you pretend.It could be just a civilised gesture.By the way ,I am not censoring anybody; I am giving my honest opinions as everybody else is entitled to his or her opinions.

Wozo, your admiration for the USA is indeed "admirable" -

Let us not mix all things here. I never suggested Paul Farmer et al. are all agents of the CIA involved in a sinister ploy against Haiti....please don't try to drown the fish my brother.

There are specific actions and behaviors that are called out and condemned for what they are. Also, why would the CIA only use the actions of its own agents to pursue its agenda. If others are willingly or unwillingly letting their work be co-opted, so it will be.

As for Jimmy Carter, i am referring to him in the context of the specific job Antoine Izméry claimed that he went to play in Haiti back in 1990. As far as I know, Carter never denied this very public allegation. Also, there are other such interventions made by Carter in world politics that support Izmérys assertion.

The bottom line is this: The U.S.A has shown every sign that its support for the Duvalier dictators has not diminished, even in 2012. Actions speak louder than words!

Jaf

"The U.S.A has shown every sign that its support for the Duvalier dictators has not diminished, even in 2012. Actions speak louder than words!"

When you write about the U.S.A your assumption is that the country is composed of a homogenous population where everybody think and act the same way all the times.Are you aware that JFK tried to overthrow Duvalier on many occasions?Are you aware of the many invasions of Haiti that came from the United States?Yes after JFK death LBJ with Republicans like Jesse Helms gave support to the dictator Francois Duvalier ,but there was a sepecific reason for that.You know very well where jacques Stephen Alexis came form when he invaded haiti.You know after the cuban crisis when the Soviet union was trying to pile and hide nuclear arms in Cuba that the United States didn't want a second Cuba in the carribean for its own security.You don't need a political science degree to understand that countries don't have friends ;they have interests.Don't forget if the United states wanted to maintain the dictatorship in haiti in 1986 they would not send a plane to carry JCD to France.They would have sent the marines as they did in Santo Domingo in 1965.

I know as a member of the lavalas party you don't digest very well the fact that Aristide was overthrown by HAITIANS with the help of the United States.I am not condoning this action ,but I understand the reasons that provoked it.Aristide was warned many times for this drug trafficking that certain officials of the government were collaborating with the Colombians cartels.I remember a piece that I wrote on the site of OPL to warn President Aristide when I heard that the political attaché at the U.S.Embassy said that they know the police was paid by money collected from the drug dealers. I knew that Arisitde will be overthrown when Goerges bush told him in Mexico :"You have the last chance."What measures did he take to stop the drug trafficking in haiti?He said :"When you 're poor you can not stop drug traffic in your country."perharps it is true ,but you don't have to tolerate officials in your government that are drug dealers.Castro doesn't tolerate them in his government in Cuba.

Everybody knew the republicans don't like Aristide.It was no secret that when Georges bush was elected after bill Clinton the same policy that overthrew Aristide in 1991 was going to be implemented again in haiti ;what measures did Arisitde take to prevent the repetition of another coup d'etat?Yes we must blame the united states for its interferences in the internal affairs of haiti .but it behooves to haitians to build solid institutions to prevent such interferences.Why can't they do the same things in cuba;in Venezuela and in Iran ?

I am tired of this complainning since the 1960's.Americans do this , americans do that.If they are your enemies stop criying like babies ; do whatever is necessary to prevent them from interfering in your affairs.break your realtionship with them;call your ambassador and declare their ambassador persona non grata.It was Rene Preval who appointed Bill Clinton co president of the CIRH.It was Arisitde who asked Bill Clinton his help to return to haiti;why didn't he stay in Venezuela instead of coming to Washington during the Bush presidency?Why didn't he go to Cuba to sollicit Castro help?Stop asking them to help you then and only then one can understand your diatribes and denunciations of their foreign policy.

Your sarcasm:"Your admiration for the United Sates is indeed admirable"doesn't affect me one way or another because since my childhood I am witnessing their efforts to help haiti.No other country has helped haiti as much ; this is not admiration this is gratitude.Who buildt the only hydro electric plant in haiti?before the occupation how many universities and hospitals did we have ?I can't understand that the country who financed the campaigns against all the diseases that were afflicted haitians in the forties until the sixties is the same country that wants to destroy haiti with sismic arms.This non sens can not penetrate my brain really.The country which is not only canceling our debts ,but also is GIVING us money after the earthquake;despite its own economic problems, is our enemy.I am sorry folks ;I am not smart enough to understand your non sens.

Wozo, just for the record dear brother. I am not a member of the Lavalas party. I have never been member of any party, anywhere and i have never said that i am.

However, I am against all the attacks that have been launched - especially those that were financed or directly conducted by foreign forces, including the United States of America, against the Lavalas movement, the Fanmi Lavalas Party, its leader and his family. I despise cowardice and injustice. So, I stand for the right of Haitians to chose their own political leaders.

I admire the good in the U.S.A but, like Michèle Obama, I refuse to pretend to be happy with the ugliness practiced by those who have held power in that country for several centuries. You, on the other hand seem to love America unconditionally. This is your right. But, I find men like John Brown who took arms against his own government in the 1850's to be way more patriotic than those who are willing to accept everything the elites of the U.S.A does in the name of their nation.

Most Americans do not know how their governments have, over the years, conducted countless crimes on innocent peoples far from their shores. They need to be informed of the truth, not pampered or sheltered from it. This is the work that true American patriots like Spike Lee attempts to accomplish true his work. Likewise for brothers like Noam Chomsky, Danny Glover of TransAfrica Forum etc... These folks want to see America rise up as a force for good in the world.

Sending 20,000 soldiers armed to the teeth to Haiti, after the earthquake is not the best that America can do!

Jesus, whom the hypocrites like quoting, did not say, I was hungry and you send in the army to shoot the hungry, so they may be quiet!

America can and must be better than what it is today.

Those who are unaware are not to blame. But those who know aout the U.S. Marines training the Tonton Macoutes of Duvalier (father and son)....those who know the involvement of Geaorge Bush in the 1991 coup and that of his son G.W. Bush in the 2004 coup - and refuse to stand up and help expose the truth so that these crimes can stop....are not patriots....they are simply scared of might. Being grateful that one found shelter in America means accepting a duty to help make it better everyday.

I love the America that gave the world Jazz, Albert Einstein and Philip Emeagwali. I hate the America that injected its own people with Siphillis, hunged thoudsands, chased them with dogs and sent them to kill innocent people in Vietnam etc...

Yes, as a human being, as a member of the global African nation, as a son of Haiti, I refuse to remain silent watching the so-called "first black president" of the most powerful nation on earth, behave so cowardly towards the rebel and noble nation of self-liberated Africans. Brother Obama has been completely absent on the Haiti file. Hillary did not win the elections but it seems she and her husband are running U.S. policy on many fronts.

Change must not be cosmetic, it needs to be real!

I leave you in peace brother!

Brother Jaf

It is useless to continue this discussion for both of us are defending the same cause but with different perceptions.As i said in my previous piece your assumption that the american people are a homogenous society where all americans think and act the same way all the times is erroneus to say the least.I cite the actions of two american Presidents toward the Duvalier dictatorship to illustrate the complexity of american foreign policy,but this distinction didn't mean anything to you.I never say that americans are saints.I admit that certain governments interfere too many times in the internal affairs of other countries without any right or knowledge of the culture, history and human conditions of the people ,but I also recognize the immense contribution of the United States toward the progress of humanity.And this contribution can not be denied by any honest person .

As I said before there are people who have the right to criticise the United states,but I ,as a beneficierary of their compassion ,charity and love can not do that while I am in their country.I should leave their country first beore I start to denigrate their system of government which by the way help a lot of immigrants coming form all over the world.I don't feel confortable criticising my host while I am at the table eating his food.This might be a too simplistic explanation of my admiration for the United Sates,but I also witness the good the american government under the leadership of certain presidents has done in haiti.As in haiti there are good presidents like Dumarsais Estime,Paul Magloire and there are monsters like the Duvaliers.It would be irresponsible and ludicrous for a foreigner to say that all haitians are wicked,criminal, irresponsible and thieves.

I understand your point of view,but let me remind you that JFK,Robert kennedy, Ted kennedy,martin luther King,Malcom X, Jessee jackson.Danny glover, Spike lee,Barack Obama and all these young leaders that fought so hard for the civil rights of black americans are also americans.I remember what Albert Schweitzer did in Haiti ;I appreciate what Dr Paul farmer is doing in haiti right now, and I do appreciate what Bill clinton did to restore Arsitide to the presidency ,and what the marines contingnent did in haiti after the earthquake.There was a real menace of cahos in haiti after the earthquake because the haitian police is not adequately equip to deal with such a distater;therefore there was a need to dispatch a force capable of responding to any situation that could develop . What did they do in haiti that is so reprehensible?

If the United states didn't send any help you would be the first to criticise its indifference.I didn't see any Russian hospital ship in haiti.How many millions did the chinese and russian govenments gave to haiti,brother?Allow me to remind you that I am not a zombi of any dogma preached by any zealous prophet who is criying ;Au secours ,vini vite to a wicked eagle ,but who was satisfied to seek refuge under its wings and claws.(lol)he was so well received in Washington that he chose his wife under the wicked eagle 's paws.This zombi has already tasted the salt of capitalism(lol)It will be very difficult for you to convert him to the ideology of komilis(lol). Have a good day ,brother.

Penn was preparing the way for the announcement made today. Duvalier will not be prosecuted for the murders and tortures he committed in Haiti with the help of empire.

Ti neg

Would you please post a video on this forum that shows there are other americans who are helping besides Sean Penn.They can not be all Tarzan.I've just seen one on my face book page where Oprah winfrey is talking to a group of white americans who left the comfort of their home to help the children of haiti ;I am wondering how many africans are there in haiti to help these children.How many haitians "beau parleur petit faiseur" who are helping.I am one of them.

Oh i forget ,like Dr paul farmer ,they are all agents of the CIA(lol)

First Look: Americans Making a Difference in Haiti - Oprah's Next Chapter - Oprah Winfrey Network OWN

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Uploaded by OWN on Jan 27, 2012

Bill and Sue Monassero share with Oprah how they came to Haiti with their daughter, Ariana, to care for orphaned Haitian children. Plus, they explain why there's nothing more fulfilling than doing just that.

Tune in Sunday, January 29, at 9/8c to see more of Oprah's visit to Haiti with Sean Penn in an all-new Oprah's Next Chapter. Then, mark your calendars to watch Part 2 of Oprah's trip at 10/9c on Monday, January 30.

For more on Oprah's Next Chapter visit http://www.oprah.com/OprahsNextChapter

Find OWN on TV at http://www.oprah.com/FindOWN

Category: Entertainment
Tags: ownoprah winfrey networkown networkoprahoprah winfreyoprahs next chapterinterviewHaitiearthquakeBill MonasseroSue MonasseroorphansLicense:Standard YouTube License
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The focus here is on Sean Penn and the motivation for his declarations about Duvalier. The fact that 1+1=2 does not invalidate that 3-1 also equals 2.

Wozo, Exaggeration of my comments to try to confuse a simple, logical point that I am making is not an appropriate strategy for useful and fact-based discussion. I am not speaking about ALL AMERICANS nor AMERICA as a nation. I am speaking about Sean Penn and his Duvalier apologist actions.

Lan ka SEAN PENN lan ;mwen pran yon ti pòz.Mwen kwè misye fè deklarasyon li fè yo paske li pa konnen kilès DIVALYE ye.
Poukisa m di sa ,se paske pa gen yon aktè ki pran plis kritik pou pozisyon li pran.
Misye te opoze gè IRAK lan e FOX TV te fè dè semèn ap kritike l pou deklarasyon misye te fè pou l apiye gouvènman HUGO CHAVEZ lan.
Mwen kwè se plis pa inyorans misye ap di sa l ap di de DIVALYE yo ;menm inyorans ti mesye GONAYIV yo te montre lè yo te envite DIVALYE an

Joel

I agree 100% .I understand why he said that.He is not condoning the crimes committed by Duvlaier,but knowing how our institutions are inadequate to pursue Duvalier he thinks that we better forgive him.Sean penn is not haitian,we must conmdemn him for interfering in our affairs, but to say that Sean Penn is an employee of jean claude Duvalier is ludicrous."Errare humanum est"

Perhaps we could all post a few items here to contribute to Sean Penn's special education


See also:

http://images.library.wisc.edu/FRUS/EFacs/1958-60v05/reference/frus.frus195860v05.i0025.pdf

Monte Divalyeris yo ap fè la a, se yon bagay byen kalkile. Zafè nèg ki ap pran bagay yo alalejè. Li pa sifi pou n ap suiv epi dokimante moun k ap banalize krim Duvalier yo, si nou rete tann sa vin pi grav anvan nou denonse yo ak bon jan agiman byen dokimante, se nan mouchwa nou va kriye pi devan.

Gade kisa Brian Dean Curran te ekri depi nan ane 2003....

Citation:

J'espère que les têtes froides prévaudront. Et j'espère que l'ultime incohérence, la nostalgie de l'ère duvaliérienne, n'induise personne à appuyer financièrement ou autrement, aucun rôle politique pour Jean Claude Duvalier. Le passage du temps ne devrait pas effacer les crimes.

Sous: Discours de l'ambassadeur sortant des Etats-Unis en Haiti Brian Dean Curran
lors de la soirée d'adieu organisée par la HAMCHAM le 9 juillet 2003

Lè ou makonnen sitasyon sa a ak revelasyon Claude Ribbe pa janm sispann klewonnen an...

Citation:

En 2004, la France et les Etats-Unis ont participé au renversement du président haitien Jean-Bertrand Aristide.Témoin privilégié de ce drame, l’écrivain français Claude Ribbe, qui fut membre de la Commission internationale d’experts sur la dette d’Haïti, nous informe que "Paris avait prévu de réinstaller au pouvoir l’ex-dictateur Jean-Claude Duvallier, mais les Etats-Unis imposèrent au dernier moment leurs hommes, Boniface Alexandre et Gérard Latortue".

Source: Régis Debray en Bolivie et en Haïti par Claude Ribbe

Ou ka konprann pou kisa pa gen aza nan evenman yo.


Annatandan, men bon kanaval pou divèti nou....