Forum Haiti : Des Idées et des Débats sur l'Avenir d'Haiti

Forum Haiti : Des Idées et des Débats sur l'Avenir d'Haiti

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 China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake

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MessageSujet: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 11:42

The Politics of Disaster Relief: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake

Publication: China Brief Volume: 10 Issue: 3February 4, 2010 02:08 PM Age: 19 hrsCategory: China Brief, Home Page, Featured, China and the Asia-Pacific, Latin America
By: Daniel Erikson

After a devastating 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti on January 12, the aftershock reached China in ways that few observers could have anticipated. After all, the link between the world’s most powerful rising economy and one of its most troubled states is tenuous. China and Haiti are worlds apart in almost every conceivable sense: profoundly separated by geography, levels of development, language and culture. Moreover, Beijing and Port-au-Prince are diplomatically estranged, as Haiti remains one of 23 countries that still maintain official relations with Taiwan. Still, the powerful seismic event that has claimed the lives of as many as 150,000 Haitians so far also posed an unexpected challenge for the Chinese leadership, which found itself viscerally drawn into the crisis and its aftermath in ways that tested its newfound diplomatic mettle, and provoked conflicting conceptions about its expanding role on the international stage. Faced with a skeptical audience abroad and a supportive one at home, the Haitian earthquake forced Chinese leaders to navigate the tricky politics of disaster relief.

According to China’s foreign ministry, there were about 230 Chinese nationals in Haiti at the time of the earthquake (China Daily, January 19). Yet, eight were in the most sensitive spot imaginable, meeting with the chief of the United Nations mission in Haiti, Hedi Annabi, at the Hotel Christopher, which served as the head of the 9,000-member strong U.N. peacekeeping force that has patrolled Haiti since the ousting of former president Jean-Bertrand Aristide in 2004. The five-story building collapsed when the quake struck, and China suddenly found itself at the epicenter of a tragedy that killed more U.N. staff in a single day than any other event in the 65-year history of the United Nations. Hundreds of U.N. staff were initially unaccounted for, and by January 29th, more than two weeks later, the U.N. had officially confirmed 85 deaths, while dozens more remained missing (BBC News, January 29).

Haiti, the poorest and most vulnerable nation in the Western Hemisphere, has long been caught in a war of attrition between China and Taiwan that has at times threatened to undermine international efforts to bring the country back from the brink of state failure. Haiti has been a firm ally of Taiwan since 1956, and has received millions of dollars in foreign aid as a result. In recent years, Taiwan stood virtually alone among the international community in continuing to support the government of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in Haiti when Western donors, like the United States and Europe, imposed a devastating bilateral aid cut-off from 2000 to 2004. When Aristide was forced from power in 2004, Taiwan maintained smooth relations with the interim government and is especially close to Haiti’s current president, René Préval, who was elected in 2006. China, by contrast, has made a minimal investment in Haiti, but Beijing began to loom larger for Haitian leaders since 2004, when China contributed 125 riot police to the Brazilian-led U.N. stabilization force deployed in Haiti, and then subsequently leveraged its permanent member status on the Security Council to prevent Taiwanese Premier Su Tseng-chang from attending the inauguration of Rene Préval in May 2006. (BBC News, May 13, 2006). In recent years, however, tensions had cooled and a fragile détente appeared to emerge between China and Taiwan with regard to resolving the issue of diplomatic status with Haiti.

Against this backdrop, the Chinese government’s response to the earthquake was driven by a mix of overlapping and potentially conflicting domestic and international motivations. These included protecting Chinese nationals still in Haiti, recovering the bodies of their fallen countrymen, acting as a key stakeholder in the multilateral system, and assuming the humanitarian responsibilities of an emerging great power. Equally important was the desire to manage domestic political sentiments regarding China’s role in the world in a manner that would strengthen—or at least do no harm to—the cause of Chinese nationalism. Efforts to deepen cooperation with the United States, bolster China’s standing in Latin America and the Caribbean and possibly further isolate Taiwan were also relevant, though of less immediate concern. Given the multiple motivations that drove China’s engagement in Haiti, it is no surprise that Beijing reacted quickly, only to achieve uneven results.

To its credit, China was among the first nations to respond to the Haitian catastrophe with rescue workers, aid and supplies. China’s 60-member search and rescue team soon departed Beijing and arrived in Port-au-Prince at 2 a.m. on the morning of January 14, making the 20-hour trip on a chartered plane with minimal refueling stops. The Chinese government also announced a donation of humanitarian aid valued at $4.4 million while the Red Cross Society of China pledged an additional $1 million (Xinhua News Agency, January 16). China had itself suffered a devastating earthquake in Sichuan province in May 2008, which killed more than 80,000 people, and Chinese leaders stressed that their actions were motivated by genuine sympathy and supplemented by practical experience in disaster relief (China Daily, January 14). China’s relief efforts were focused on excavating the Hotel Christopher and the team was credited with retrieving the body of U.N. Mission Chief Hedi Annabi.

Yet, once China’s eight-member police delegation was recovered, the team ceased its work at the U.N. site and was later seen departing the country, provoking criticism that China’s efforts in Haiti were motivated by narrow-minded nationalism. The allegations incensed China, prompting foreign ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu to fume: “These comments are false and are made out of ulterior motives . . . these actions are not selfish and brook no accusations. The accusers should be accused.” (Agence France Presse, January 19). In fact, while some members of the initial Chinese rescue mission soon returned to China, a subset of the team stayed behind to deliver medical care to a badly damaged sector of Port-au-Prince (Xinhua News Agency, January 19).

The Chinese fatalities in Haiti quickly emerged as a top item in China’s domestic politics as Beijing officials commemorated the victims in a series of elaborate ceremonies that adroitly straddled sentimentality and nationalist pride. In recent years, China has placed increasing importance on its contribution to U.N. peacekeeping missions—and the successive rotations of 125 riot police that have served in Haiti since 2004 are part of a broader strategy that has seen more than 14,000 troops participate in 24 separate missions. Prior to the Haitian earthquake, only eight Chinese officials had died in U.N. missions around the world; the eight Chinese fatalities in Port-au-Prince instantly doubled that figure to sixteen. The loss of the Chinese peacekeepers in Haiti dominated the country’s headlines for days, and the official People’s Liberation Army Daily hailed their return to China, stating “Peacekeeping heroes, the fatherland greets you on your return home” (The Associated Press, January 20). China’s Ministry of Public Security named all eight of the deceased peacekeepers as “martyrs,” and three were posthumously awarded the title of “peacekeeping heroes” by the State Council and the Central Military Commission, while the other five were named “hero models” (Xinhua News Agency, January 25). China dispatched four additional peacekeepers to replace their fallen colleagues in Haiti (the other four who died were part of a visiting delegation).

A burial ceremony was held at the Babaoshan Revolutionary Cemetery in Beijing, an honor bestowed only upon those of national importance. The ceremony was also attended by top Chinese officials, including President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao. While China’s official press praised the outpour of sympathy for the officers and their families, it also reported several critical comments that had been posted to online mourning sites. One person cited “mixed feelings” owing to alleged incidences of police brutality in southwest Guizhou Province, while another surmised that the peacekeepers were corrupt and had been sent abroad for “other purposes.” The Chinese official press emphasized that such postings “were immediately blasted by other netizens, who said lives were precious and the dead should be mourned” (Xinhua News Agency, January 18).

In any case, such allegations against China surely pleased Taiwan, which moved to match Beijing’s aid to Haiti. Interestingly, however, Taiwan did not seize the aftermath of the Haitian earthquake as an opportunity to substantially surpass China’s response, although this would have been well within its capabilities. The reason may lie in Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou, elected in 2008, who has struck a “diplomatic truce” with Beijing that has led to a cooling of diplomatic tussles over the sovereignty question. Still, Taiwan rebuffed a suggestion by Chinese officials to increase cross-strait cooperation in Haiti, although Ma did speak positively about the role of Chinese peacekeepers there.

Taiwan has long been a strong supporter of Haitian President René Préval and prioritized aid to both Haiti and neighboring Dominican Republic as part of a strategy to keep the island of Hispaniola from shifting its allegiance to China [1]. While the total amounts of Chinese and Taiwanese aid to Haiti immediately after the earthquake totaled about $5.4 million each, Taiwan sent its rescue mission and medical relief workers through the Dominican capital of Santo Domingo. Two weeks after the earthquake, President Ma also met personally with Haitian Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive during a “transit summit” at the Santo Domingo airport. After delivering 10 tons of food and medical supplies, the Taiwanese leader outlined a four-point assistance plan for Haiti in the areas of public health, housing, job creation, and the adoption of orphaned children (Taiwan News, January 29).

The Taiwanese team also focused its efforts on the devastated U.N. mission headquarters, rescuing a Haitian security guard and locating a French staffer who survived under the rubble (Central News Agency [Taiwan], January 18). Due to its ongoing disarray, the Haitian government did not respond substantively to these overtures and, in any event, Haitian authorities are too consumed in managing the earthquake’s aftermath to pay much attention to the Taiwan question in the short term.

Now that the initial calamity in Haiti has begun to subside, China is positioning itself to support multilateral relief efforts while sidestepping any wider leadership responsibilities, such as dramatically increasing the role of Chinese peacekeepers in Haiti or stepping in as a major donor. In the days after the earthquake, the U.S. mobilized 10,000 troops and hundreds of millions of dollars in public and private assistance, and appears likely to play a dominant role in Haiti for months, if not years, to come. In Latin America, many countries have noted that the Chinese response, while admirable, was more consistent with a small, activist country than with a rising global superpower. More Haitians may ultimately be pulled from the rubble by the various teams from Belgium, Iceland, Poland and Turkey than by the Chinese responders, and China’s financial donations to Haiti represent just a tiny fraction of the promises made by the developed world.

Given China’s limited interest in Haiti, it is probably sensible that Beijing take a backseat role to other, more engaged actors as the international community begins to calculate the costs of the long-term reconstruction of the country. China emerges from the Haiti disaster with a bruised ego and a fortified sense of national identity. In addition, China has once again confirmed its deeply held belief that, as far as Latin America and the Caribbean is concerned, Beijing should focus on economics, avoid the politics and respond to crisis helpfully while leaving the serious work of disaster management to Washington.

Notes

1. In addition to the Dominican Republic and Haiti, Taiwan’s diplomatic allies in the region include: Belize, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, and St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 12:49

Li lè pou Ayiti repanse kesyon alyans avèk Taiwan lan.Wi Taiwan te bay èd ,men lè yon peyi ka machande bagay sa a byen ,w ap sòti ganyan.
Se vide La Chine te vide lajan sou Costa Rica ,lè ane pase li te abandone Taiwan pou l rekonètLa Chine.Yo envesti tou de santèn de milyon dola lan ekonomi Costa Rica an.

A kote nou la a La Chine gen anviwon 2 milya envesti lan ekonomi Kiba a .Yo envesti lan min,y ap chache petwòl elatriye.
Wi nou genyen Taiwan rekonesans ,men se pou nou gade lan makout nou tou.
Tcheke sa nou ka jwenn lan men La Chine e di Taiwan nou regrèt sa.Apre tou Taiwan se yon ti peyi!
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 13:27

Mwen dakor avek ou, min tou Ayiti pa ka lage Taiwan konsa moncher ou bliye ke se "big brother" ki dikte. big brother ap seye kinbe yon balans, Ayiti nan yon bo balance la.

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 13:51

Alò, se nou ki pou pran dikte a.
Plis pase Kostarika avèk Lagrenad?
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 18:09

La Chine gen lajan envesti lan tout Amerik lan.Lan Brezil sèlman li gen plis ke 25 milya envesti ,lan tout bagay ,de agrikilti ak resous minyè.Yo lan ti peyi lan Amerik lan ,yo lan gwo peyi.
Sasaye w ap pale de Kostarika ak La Grenad?
Yo fèt sot bati yon estadyòm fèt e founi la a bay BAHAMAS.Yon estadyòm pou tout spò;de "track and field" jiska foutbòl.
E yomenm yo pa lan pwomès 6 mwa ou byen 1 an.
Yo di y ap fè l e lan yon mwa ,tout bataklan pou fè travay lan rive.
Mwen tande nèg ap di ke nou gen petwòl?
Nou gen relasyon ak La chine e w ap wè yo lan lanmè an ap foraje.
Ekonomi La Chine lan,aloufa pou resous ,depi w vle danse y ap fè kavalye!
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 18:38

Tout sa se bel bagay, men amerikin pap kite chinois soti byen lwen poul jwe nan bab li. Vot Ayiti nan UN se toujou dikte big brother, like it or not.

Se pou nou li liv listwa yo ler gwo vot tap fet par anbasader St. Lot pou Ayiti chwazi ant lachin ak taiwan.

Se sa menm big brother ap dikte nou e lap toujou dikte nou paske nou pakonin kouman poun jwe jwet la.

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 18:55

Te gen yon kamarad ki rele Loti Malbranche, m'pa finn souje nom li tre byen ki te vini ak sije sa e lite mande ke li le pou Ayiti chanje diplomasi. Pou'l pase de Taiwan a la Chine Rouge ki pi puissan tout kote.

Vwa yo puissan nan desisyon l'ONU se yo ki approve si pou Ayiti jwen lajan ou pa, si pou MINUSTAH rete ou pa.

Desidamman zanmitaj pou zanmitaj, lwayote pou lwayote fok Ayiti oblije repanse a relasyon diplomatik li!
Paske tou o tan ke nou avek Taiwan, ki sanse yon pitit, yon renagade de la mere Chinwa Rouj , yap mete baton nan wou nou si yo vle!

Memm Gouvenman Obama a gen pwoblem avek la Chine ki pa kontan ditou pou Obama resevwa Deli Lama, reprezantan Tibet nan mezon blanch.

L'afrique ap resevwa anpil ed nan men China konnnyen la, men yo pa telman renmen politik gwaze zo kont pep chinwa ki anba yon rejim kominist toujou.

Travaye chinwa kap travay preske kankou esklav nan faktory.
Sa bay nou memm neg flashback.

Opinion pa'm se ke nou pa bezwen Chine Rouj la pou nou memm Ayisyen viv!
Taiwan siffi nou!! e yo toujou la pou nou le nou nan bezwen.

Revelasyon
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 19:07

revelation a écrit:
Te gen yon kamarad ki rele Loti Malbranche, m'pa finn souje nom li tre byen ki te vini ak sije sa e lite mande ke li le pou Ayiti chanje diplomasi. Pou'l pase de Taiwan a la Chine Rouge ki pi puissan tout kote.

Vwa yo puissan nan desisyon l'ONU se yo ki approve si pou Ayiti jwen lajan ou pa, si pou MINUSTAH rete ou pa.

Desidamman zanmitaj pou zanmitaj, lwayote pou lwayote fok Ayiti oblije repanse a relasyon diplomatik li!
Paske tou o tan ke nou avek Taiwan, ki sanse yon pitit, yon renagade de la mere Chinwa Rouj , yap mete baton nan wou nou si yo vle!

Memm Gouvenman Obama a gen pwoblem avek la Chine ki pa kontan ditou pou Obama resevwa Deli Lama, reprezantan Tibet nan mezon blanch.

L'afrique ap resevwa anpil ed nan men China konnnyen la, men yo pa telman renmen politik gwaze zo kont pep chinwa ki anba yon rejim kominist toujou.

Travaye chinwa kap travay preske kankou esklav nan faktory.
Sa bay nou memm neg flashback.

Opinion pa'm se ke nou pa bezwen Chine Rouj la pou nou memm Ayisyen viv!
Taiwan siffi nou!! e yo toujou la pou nou le nou nan bezwen.

Revelasyon

exakteman fok nou pa engra
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 19:35

M' pa kwe ke se yon kestyon de ingra/rekonesans, paske ler Ayiti tap vote pou rekonet Taiwan li te gaye pa anba, se yon cercle de jeu Lonu ye.

Se sak fe mwen te di kem mwen dakor ak Joel, mais eske Ayiti gin yon ambasader fort et intelijan tankou St. Lot pou jwe jwet la.

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyVen 5 Fév 2010 - 19:45

Citation :
T-Neg di: exakteman fok nou pa engra
Mesi T-Neg deske w pataje opinion'm avek w!
W jeunn toujou, mwen tekab papa w e se yon bel bagay e bon exemp pou nou we valer lwayote e amitye nan jeuness nou yo!!

Taiwan pa jamb lague nou!!
Poukisa pou nou lague yo??

Yo gen mwayen ede nou pou Ayiti vinn yon Ti-Taiwan!!

Se pa grosse yon chien an ki inpotan nan yon batay, se konviksyon chien e desire li poul genyen batay sa malgre sitiyasion !!

An bon kreyol, gwo boudha pa vle di la sante!

Mesi anko T-Neg!

W ta fe yon bon diplomat!1
Peyi d'Ayiti nan moman difisil sila bezwen jeunn neg kankou w ki pap vire langue yo e vire sou do e abandone lwayote pou pouvwa ak lajan
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 9:12

Kami se wou ki pale de zafè Emile St Lot an.Konnen byen ma chè ke St lot pa t gen chwa ,men se te rekonèt TAIWAN.Se te lan kòmansman gè frèt lan ,lè jwèt lan te make san .
E lè sa a ,La Chine tou ,se te yon peyi kote moun t ap mou ri grangou.
Nou konnen depi kilè JAMAYIK rekonèt La Chine?
Se te an 1972 apre vizit Nixon an Chine lan.
Si se menm jan ak nou ke politisyen ann Ayiti yo kontinye ap panse ,nou pran lan twa wa.
Mwen sot gade yon entèvyou ke BRUCE GOLDING (premye minis Jamayik lan) bay sou CCTV (televizyon deta La Chine lan).Misye an vizit lan BEIJING pou l al pran piyay La Chine ap lage sou ti peyi lan Amerik yo.
Golding remèsye gouvènman chinwa a pou asistans l ap bay vwazen l Ayiti ki lan ka.
Misye tou ki se yon manm JLP rann omaj a MANLEY yon ansye advèsè li ,ki te gen vizyon pou l rekonèt La Chine bonè konsa ak tout risk nou konnen sa te gen ladan l.
T-NEG pa koute lòt nèg ;lan destine yon peyi ,pa gen zafè rekonesans pou rekonesans;TAIWAN se enterè l l ap defann lè l ap Ayiti yon ti èd.
La Chine menm chita sou yon babako lajan.Yomenm se pa ti èd sou pwèl y ap bay ,depi ou gen yon resous y ap envesti e y ap bay èd tanjib tou.Se yo menm ki ap transfòme peyi Lafrik yo.Lan yon peyi tankou ZIMBABWE yo fèt so envesti 800milyon dola lan endistri minye.
E zafè "big brother" an li pa de miz ,paske TAIWAN limenm konnen ke li inevitab ke La Chine ap absòbe l menm jan li absòbe HONG KONG ak MAKAO.
Biznismann CHINWA gen bilyon envesti lan TAIWAN e visvèsa.
Se lè pou nou rekonèt La Chine ,pandan ke nou ka meneye bagay sa a.
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:17

Citation :
Joel di : T-NEG pa koute lòt nèg ;lan destine yon peyi ,pa gen zafè rekonesans pou rekonesans;TAIWAN se enterè l l ap defann lè l ap bay Ayiti yon ti èd.

Memm jan tou la Chine Rouj ap cheche intere yo tou.
Depi kelketan, chinwa rouj yo pa respekte regle marche mondyal yo.. Yo copye tout bagay lot peyi san pemissyon.
Yo envahi marche avek yon band vye prodwi “cheap”.
Yo pa respekte environment.
Se sou illigalite e cheap labor ke mesye Chinwa rouj sayo ap opera.
Citation :
Joel di: La Chine menm chita sou yon babako lajan.Yomenm se pa ti èd sou pwèl y ap bay ,depi ou gen yon resous yap envesti e y ap bay èd tanjib tou.

De pi ke ou gen yon resous yap investi.
E si ke ou pa gen yon resous ??
Le tineg we babako lajan ke yo pantan! Yo depale! Yo kontredi tet yo.

Siyo ta mande ou Joel pou kisa ou ta vle ranplase Taiwan pou la Chine Rouj kom zanmi d’Ayiti, se repons sayo ke ou tap bay?
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:38

Joel,

Gouvenman Ayisyen te rekonet Taiwan pou intere peyi-l. A chak fwa gen yon pwopozisyon ki fet, Ayiti toujou supote Taiwan pou intere li. Taiwan li minm bezwen surviv a Lonu paske la grande Chine bezwen metel deyo kom etan provins rebel donk lap cheche tout moyen poul ede tout ti peyi ki vle soutni-l poul syeje a Lonu, mais kom la grande Chine pa rekonet yo, yo setoblije cheche appuie peyi ke yo konsidere pret a ede yo. Ayiti ki toujou jalouse de l\'independance des pays en domination donk pran pozisyon pour ke Taiwan soit inclus au concert des nations. Se pou tet sa Tawan ap pran tout mesure sa yo poul asurel vote ayiti nan Lonu.

Mwen rekonet ke Taiwan asosyel an Ayiti ak anpil gwo pwojet pou devlope infrastrikti peyi-a. Nou pa janm tande la Chine ladanl, donk se tout a fe nomal ke Ayiti apuyel nan tout tantativ ke lap fe poul chita a Lonu. Se yon quid pro quo. C'est la loi de la politik map ede-w map ede-w.

Mwen pa janm kwe ke Ayiti te dwe gin la rekonesans enver Taiwan paske se yon ka de recipworsite ke li ye. Ayiti pa dwe Taiwan, e Taiwan pa dwe Ayiti.

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Dernière édition par kami le Sam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:43, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:42

Alos sim kompran byen si on jou Amerikenn di expilse ambasadè Venezuela an Ayiti nap di wi paske ameriken ap blayi lajan sou nou?
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:45

T-NEG a écrit:
Alos sim kompran byen si on jou Amerikenn di expilse ambasadè Venezuela an Ayiti nap di wi paske ameriken ap blayi lajan sou nou?
TI-NEG

Se pa konsa jwet la jwe. Anpa nou gen relasyon ak Cuba, eske yo mande poun mete ambasader a deyo?

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 10:57

kami a écrit:
T-NEG a écrit:
Alos sim kompran byen si on jou Amerikenn di expilse ambasadè Venezuela an Ayiti nap di wi paske ameriken ap blayi lajan sou nou?
TI-NEG

Se pa konsa jwet la jwe. Anpa nou gen relasyon ak Cuba, eske yo mande poun mete ambasader a deyo?

wi Kami,
Nèg yo pa konprann ke relasyon entènasyonal se an "gri";se pa nwa ou blan.Mond lan se tankou lan filozofi chinwa yo ,yo rele "ying and yang"
Ying lan se mwatye yon sèk blan kote gen yon ti pati nwa la dan l e yang lan se le kontrè.
Se bagay sa a ki gide chinwa yo ,ke sèl peyi o mond ki gen yon kilti kontini depi 4000 an .Malgre yo konn gen troub entèn men yo toujou konnen gen yon "bòn" pou yo pa depase.Ou te mèt konkeri yo ,men se toujou tanporè pou wou.
Mwen garanti w si Ayiti ta vle etabli relasyon ak Chinwa yo ,ameriken yo pa p di anyen.Tou senpman ,sa pa t ap an kontradiksyon flagran ak enterè ameriken!

Revelasyon ,mwen wè ou mansyone la chine ,tankou "Chine Rouj"
Depi ki lè Chine te toujou Rouj?Chinwa yo ap dirije peyi yo aktyèlman ,men jan yo te dirije l pandan gran dinasti l yo.Ak dinasti sa yo ,yo te peyi ki pi avanse sou planèt lan .Se yo ki envante tout bagay ki vin pèmèt revolisyon endistriyèl lan posib ann Ewòp;bagay tankou poud a kanon ,papye,enprimri elt...
Revolisyon 49 lan ,se te jis yon aksidan istwa
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 11:14

Citation :


wi Kami,
Nèg yo pa konprann ke relasyon entènasyonal se an "gri";se pa nwa ou blan.Mond lan se tankou lan filozofi chinwa yo ,yo rele "ying and yang"
Ying lan se mwatye yon sèk blan kote gen yon ti pati nwa la dan l e yang lan se le kontrè.
Se bagay sa a ki gide chinwa yo ,ke sèl peyi o mond ki gen yon kilti kontini depi 4000 an .Malgre yo konn gen troub entèn men yo toujou konnen gen yon "bòn" pou yo pa depase.Ou te mèt konkeri yo ,men se toujou tanporè pou wou.
Mwen garanti w si Ayiti ta vle etabli relasyon ak Chinwa yo ,ameriken yo pa p di anyen.Tou senpman ,sa pa t ap an kontradiksyon flagran ak enterè ameriken!

Kestion an byen simp! Ki intere ke Ayiti gennyen pou'l konpe relation avek Taiwan e fourre ko'l pito anba la Chine Rouj de preferans??

Kestion an simp se vre, men repons yo tre komplex e li mande konprehensyon e jijman.

Sispand vinn pran poz historyen nou sou forum nan!! De 4000 an, de ying and yang! "Se pa konsa jwet la jwe", yon band rans ki kab detoune loloj jeun gason kou T-Neg kap chache konnen benefit et pert nan relation international peyi d'Ayiti.!!
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptySam 6 Fév 2010 - 11:36

Joel,

Mwen renmen fason ke-w ou intwodwi istwa la chine pou nou comprann pozisyon yo. Se yon bel instruction ke ou ban nou la-a.

Aparment la chine sanblel indiferan a nou. yo pa fe anyin ki bon poun mensyone tout recemment. yo kite Taiwan domine mache ayisyen an sutou nan tan nap viv nan seism lan. Ou peyi osi avanse tankou la chine te supoze pote le plus aid posib poul montre ke li sousye li de aveni, bienet pep ayisyen. nou tout konen se yon gwan pwisans kel ye, minm tipeyi ki depouvu fe pi gwo jes de solidarite. Nou pap mande men nou te espere bocoup plus de yon peyi osi devlope. an fonksyon de sa mwen kwe ke yap rate moman pou montre ke yo se gran suporter de yonpeyi ki gin indepandans li ldepi 2 syek e ki viktim aktyelman de yon gwan seism tankou yo te gen lakay yo.

Se yon ti pey, yon third world country ke nou ye , yo konen kapacite nou, yo te viktim tou de minm seism lan, yo konen ki tip effo ke yo dwe deployer pou venir au secours des gens sinistres. Donk nou kwe ke yo trop tyed nan ed yo bannou.

Mwen regret ke kreyol mwen pa osi byen ke pa-w, sepa lang matenel mwen, min se yon lang kem aprann ekri poukont mwen.

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 8:54

Non Revelasyon,pa vini lan bagay senplistik sa yo.
Si yon moun ap swiv ou sou fowòm,yo konnen pakou w.

Pou oumenm tout bagay ewopeyen bon.Bon pito m rete la sou sa.
Poukisa lan plis ke 200 peyi lan mond lan ,nou se youn lan 23 peyi ki toujou rekonèt Taiwan.
Nou pi entelijan pase lòt yo?
Non mesye ,sispann aprann sèlman istwa ewopeyen yo;aprann istwa La Chine e sa nou a dekouvri ,na sezi.

Kami,
Silvouplè ,al chache sou sit CCTV an ,si w ka jwenn entèvyou premye minis JAMAYIK lan ,ki lan sèn politik peyi sa a se yon pati sant-dwat l ap dirije
Mwen t ap chache l yè pou m poste adrès lan pou wou,men yo genlè poko poste l.
Kòm mwen te di misye te bay entèvyou an lan yon vizit ke l te fè le 5 Fevriye la a ,lan Beijing.
Se lan ribrik "Dialogue".Si w jwenn entèvyou an ,di m sa w panse!
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 9:52

Citation :
Joel di: Pou oumenm tout bagay ewopeyen bon ! Non mesye ,sispann aprann sèlman istwa ewopeyen yo;aprann istwa La Chine e sa nou a dekouvri ,na sezi.

Joel mwen pa ni europeyen ni afriken ! Bay preferens ak yon nan 2 group sa yo se mande’m » Papa’m ou byen maman, ki yes ke’m pi renmen ???

Repons lan simp yo tou le 2 paske Se Ayisyen ke’m ye!

Sak fe ke mwen chwazi rete avek Taiwan?

Paske se yon kestion de lwayote, yo pa fe nou ennyen pou nou lague yo e nou te zanmi yo avan Chine Rouj la.

Lague yo e fourre ko nou anba vant Chine Rouj la de preferans pou « babako » la jan pa vreman yon rezon valab paske Taiwan gen babako lajan tou.

Repons w petet se ke Chine Rouj la kap bay Ayiti plis « babako »

Wi se vre Joel, men ki kapasite d’obsortion peyi d’Ayiti.

Se kankou ke Ayiti se yon Volkswagen et w di ke la Chine Rouj la kap mete yon moteur BMW 8 cylindre nan dada nou pou Ayiti progresse pli vit.

Se pa vre ditou paske kapasite d’absortion peyi d’Ayiti an accord plis avek Taiwan.

Nou prefere ke Taiwan voye payzan taiwanen ba nou pou aprand yaisyen plante di riz pou satisfe grangou nou olye ke faktori sweatshop, poluye chinwa rouj yo nan PotoPrins.

Joel w pa oblije dako avek nou ! W te met kanpe sou ipinion w mon fre !

Jan Charlotin toujou di a, fok nou realist e chwazi sa kapasite vant pep la kap pran olye ke nap reve belbagay ke blan yo ap fe nou fil-a-langue.
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 10:16

Leu mwen finn li 2 intervention sa yo Joel ak revelation , je suis arrivé à la conclusion que la diplomatie haitienne n'est pas assez intelligente pour défendre ses intérêts et obtenir des apports importants des deux chines pour son développement économique. On a qu'à regarder les trois années du gouvernement Préval , Alexis , Pierre -Louis et Bellerive pour s'en rendre compte. Le président n'a pas de stratégies et on peut même penser que le président n'a pas de lunettes pour voir ni de près ni de loin.

Franchement , Haiti aurait pu faire mieux en matière diplomatique. Je crois que la présidence de René Préval mérite un gros zéro en matière diplomatique.
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 11:15

Historiquement, depuis 1935, Haiti manipulee par whashington est anti communiste... ce qui explique une relation froide avec la chine... Le resultat est qu'Haiti a son ambassade a Taiwan et pas en chine. Il y a juste un representant permanent A Pekin.
Taiwan arrose Haiti avec un peu de sous... comme contrepartie, Haiti donne son vote a Taiwan.

D'un point de vue geopolitique, Haiti est dans la zone d'influence americaine et la chine ne cherche pas vraiment a avoir une infliuence... La chine concentre ses efforts en Afrique.

D'un point de vue strategique, Haiti a son cul entre dans deux chaises... Faut-il privilegier des relations diplomatiques avec la chine?

La reponse n'est pas si simple.... Dans le meilleur des mondes, il faudrait mieux etre copain avec la chine tout en etant ami avec Taiwan.....

Mais qu'est ce que la chine mettra dans la balance...? pas grand chose pour les raisons indiquees? La chine ne veut pas de confrontation avec les americains dans leur zone d'influence... Elle n'a pas vraiment d'interet en Haiti.. En revanche, la chine peut bloquer les interets haitiens au sein des institutions financieres internationales si les haitiens se melent de leur affaires interieures. (taiwan)

Dans le pire des cas, Haiti privilegie La chine, elle gagne quasiment rien, la chine devient un element neutre, et Haiti perd le soutien financier de taiwan.

Voila le dilemne l'haitien, c'est de mettre en oeuvre la theorie du win win..... Mais c'est plus facile a dire qu'a faire.

Haiti pourrait continuer le statu quo.... cela me parait un mauvais choix.....Ou elle choisit de reequilibrer les relations avec la chine tout en maintenant ses relations avec Taiwan... mais la, il s'agit d'un non choix pour la chine, Je pense qu'elle y verra un win lose et n'acceptera pas.

En bon stratege, les haitiens doivent negocier en meme temps avec les deux pour obtenir un plan d'aide au developpement pour Haiti sur plusieurs annees tout en garantissant leur appui... le choix de l'un ou l'autre se fera en fonction du meilleur offrant et non comme par le passe sur des fondements purement ideologiques et droits de l'hommiste.

En matiere diplomatique, philantropie sur philantropie ne vaut pas.
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MessageSujet: JAMAICA-CHINA RELATIONS MOVING TOWARDS INVESTMENT PHASE   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 12:27

JAMAICA-CHINA RELATIONS MOVING TOWARDS INVESTMENT PHASE

Prime Minister Bruce Golding has told China's businessmen and potential investors that Jamaica wants to move its relations with China to a new phase, one that will look at establishing greater investment links with that country.

He said the relationship between Jamaica and China has been through many phases, initially through programmes of cultural exchanges, to financial assistance in the forms of grants and loans to the Government of Jamaica to undertake important public projects. More recently it has involved the provision of lines of credit and Chinese companies undertaking major projects in Jamaica, as part of the programme of economic co-operation. The Prime Minister said this has brought great benefits to Jamaica in its quest to achieve the kind of development that can ensure a good quality of life for the people of Jamaica.

However, Mr. Golding noted that the primary focus of his visit to China at this time is to see how to move that spirit of cooperation into a new and exciting dimension and to build on the foundation laid since 1972 when formal diplomatic relations were established.

Mr. Golding was addressing a luncheon of the China Council for the Promotion of International Trade in Beijing yesterday which saw presentations by the Industry and Commerce Minister Karl Samuda on the range of opportunities that exist for doing business in Jamaica.

Mr. Golding said ‘We believe that Jamaica offers China tremendous opportunities in terms of its global reach and the penetration it is so effectively seeking throughout the world. Jamaica is positioned one-and-a-half hours by air from North America and even less from Central America, within a region that has a population of over 700million people. We see Jamaica as a strategic location that would enhance investments from China seeking to address the growing demands in this particular part of the world'.

Mr. Golding noted that much would have to be done to put the infrastructure in place but he expressed the hope that the exchanges which have been taking place during his various meetings in China will lay a platform to build this exciting phase of the economic relations between Jamaica and China.

The Prime Minister said his aim is to market Jamaica as an investment destination.

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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 13:10

Mwen byen kontan reyaksyion sayo ki montre gen plisyè manyè pou gade menm bagay la.

Se rezon saa ki fè ke m te mete sijè enpotan saa sou fowom lan.

1- Jwèt gè fwad la fini.
Taywan sèvi ak Ayiti pou soutyen diplomatik lan ONU, pou kenbe l lan plas li okipe a.
Si se pa sa lap pèdi plas li e se Lachin sèlman ki pral reprezante tout chinwa y konpri Taywan.

Si Ayiti pa vote pou li ankò, pozisyon l ap febli e si sa kontinye lan 3 zou 3 zan lè lòt peyi yo swiv kouran an, lap pèdi plas li kanmenm.
Kidonk, se pa renmen taywanè renmen ayisyen.
Se jwèt diplomatik lagè fwad la ki ta p jwe.

Lan pwen lwayote ni lanmou lan bagay saa.

Lè Lagrenad wete sipo l pou l al jwen Lachin, Taywanè yo te mande anraje, yo repwoche Lagrenad e yo te menm mande pou Lagrenad remèt yo 23 milyon ke yo te envesti lan yon pwojè.


2-Ayiti pi enpotan lan rejyon an ke la Jamayik. Si relasyon peyi saa avèk Lachin rive lan faz envestisman, Ayiti kapab fè menm demach yo.

Lachin pa gen okenn pwoblèm pou anpyete sou sfè enfliyans meriken.
Yo fè l an Afrik, Lan Amerik di sid e sitou o Brezil.

Sa vle di ke si nou ta montre entère nou, yo ta p montre pa yo e lan pwen oken dout ke Ayiti gen rezèv ke Lachin ap chèche.

3- Malgre ke se yon dilem pou gouvènman ayisyen, yo kapab chèche mwayen pou defini e jwen entère Ayiti lan relasyon avèk Lachin ki pral dire.
Taywan ka b pa lan pozisyon pou ede Ayiti lan 5 an.
Deja yo rekonèt sa e yo mete dlo lan divin yo.
Yo gen bon relasyon avèk Lachin, se meriken ki ap soufle dife.

3- Diplomasy ayisyen merite developman ak pwogrè, men nou pakapab di ke yo pa fè pwogrè.

Ayiti lan bon relasyon avèk Etazini, Kiba, Venezyela, Iran, Lafrans.
Tout pol sayo opoze e pa gen anpil peyi lan zònn nan ki lan pozisyion saa.
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MessageSujet: Re: China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake   China, Taiwan and the Haitian Earthquake EmptyDim 7 Fév 2010 - 13:44

Joel,

Gin yon denye mo mwen ta renmen ajoute seke Ayiti pap janm vote pou la chine toutotan Preval prezidan dapre mwen pou rezon sa-a:

Citation :
Maryse André
Ontario, Canada
31/10/05
Taiwan qui est en train de financer avec beaucoup de dollars la campagne de Préval sera très satisfait de son choix.

Le perdant sera le peuple haïtien, la Chine Communiste qui finançait le socialiste Serge Gilles, qui lui est en perte de vitesse.

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