Forum Haiti : Des Idées et des Débats sur l'Avenir d'Haiti
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 The failed Haitian Diaspora

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MessageSujet: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyMer 23 Juil 2008 - 16:19

Reprinted from Caribbean Net News
caribbeannetnews.com

Letter: The failed Haitian Diaspora

Published on Saturday, July 19, 2008


Dear Sir:

Haiti has the longest continuous relationship (over 200 years) with the USA than any other nation in the Western hemisphere. So you would assume that in the 50+ years that the Diaspora has been living in the USA that they would have established strong political ties that benefit their homeland. They do not.

In comparison to African, Asian, Hispanic and Middle Eastern diasporas they appear as amateurs. Their effectiveness is virtually nil in establishing and directing American actions to the favor of Haiti.

So why is this? What did they do wrong for so long and why haven't they changed direction? They made five very critical mistakes:

1. The completely linked themselves politically with black Americans and their concerns. They saw the fight for better race relations as their primary role and blindly signed on to anything said or actions/positions taken by the black leadership in the USA over the decades.

2. They blindly follow and vocally espouse the Northeast liberal ideology on social issues.

3. They are nearly 100% Democrat in their voting and viewpoints. They are vocally opposed to the Republicans and "whites" in general.

4. They congregated and remain in only two areas of America.

5. They view America as imperialists who want to rape Haiti of supposed riches and therefore do not want America in Haiti at all.

Contrast this with Asian, Mexican, Jewish and Arab diasporas. All of them are geographically dispersed, split their votes between the parties 20/80% to 40/60%, have not linked themselves with any overly vocal, antagonistic groups, and remain split on social agenda issues.

These five mistakes have made them largely ineffective in getting the USA to move on Haiti's critical infrastructure needs. Oh yes, Haiti receives more financial aid than any other Caribbean nation but Haiti is also ranked in the bottom 1 percent of all nations for government corruption so that number is meaningless.

Haiti is simply a line item, once the check is written it is quickly forgotten and the money squandered. But the Diaspora wants just that. The don't want America in Haiti and so American stays out and Haiti pays the price.

The Haitian Diasporas have gone through evolution in thought and actions but these critical mistakes hold true and steadfast across all generations.

The original Diaspora of the 1950s (with ages now in their 70s - 90s) thought they were different from black Americans and instructed their children to avoid them. Many did physically but not mentally. They found a ready friend in the likes of black militants and their hate for the evil, white American imperialists. They found a mental link with black Americans and their hate for the "racist" Republican Party and they followed black Americans by blindly signing on as Democrats.

It was militant black Americans that shaped the original Haitian Diaspora in thought and in their minds confirmed that the evil white man was to blame for their predicament. They weren't militant in action; only bonded like twins mentally. Interestingly, on the physical side, they were far more likely to date and even marry whites than black Americans.

The Diaspora remained in Miami and New York. Although Haitians are lightly spread out across other major cities the "progressive" Diaspora are New Yorkers. The children (now in their 50s) of the original Diaspora made the next critical mistake and totally accepted the liberal ideology fermenting in the Northeast. They became very vocal and accepting of the social concerns on homosexuality, abortion, drugs, sex, etc. Their parents objected but firmly believed that they had to accept anything said by the Democrat leadership and allowed the children to jump full force into these areas.

The grandchildren (now in their 20s - 30s) are rabid, in your face, social elitists. They have very little in common with their grandparents other than they continue to reinforce their critical mistakes. They have virtually no mental connection with their relatives in Haiti other than to encourage them to send their children to northeast liberal colleges that espouse their very American social agenda. Their life is all about the "social ideology" of the Democrat party.

In other words, the Diaspora is pigeon holed by the rest of America as black activists who "Hate America First", oppose the "white" man, and remain secluded. This makes them ineffective in American society except for the small, far left, fringe that comprises under 10 percent of the population.

They haven't led, but followed, and followed blindly the wrong groups, issues, and political positions. They are marginalized and without voice other than the one provided by white American elitists when they can be used to point out just how "evil" America is. It is a losing strategy but so ingrained, they are now slaves to the Democrat Party, black leadership, and white elitists. Without political power, they are simply pawns to these masters.

I see no change in them, and for all this talk about how "helpful" the Diaspora will be in Haiti's future, they are to elitists and inexperienced in the basic elements of society: infrastructure construction. Their lofty idealism swirls around gay rights for the moment. That's not high on a Haitians agenda when they don't have clean water, electricity, security or sanitation.

George Grunner
Atlanta, GA





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright© 2007 Caribbean Net News at www.caribbeannetnews.com All Rights Reserved
Licence is granted for free print and distribution.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyMer 23 Juil 2008 - 16:37

I beg to differ with this analysis;The author does not know what he is talking about ;therefore he does not deserve an answer.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyMer 23 Juil 2008 - 19:23

Sans Malis, se sa mwen ta pwal di tou.

Si pou blan diaspopo a failed paske li gade vale pali, se pa sa moun lakay di.

Men yon ti presentation ki bay bon estatistik sou diaspora a o lie nou koute blanmanan kap rablabla.

Pou Malis se yon nan gwoup kitap fe appel a investisse diaspopo yo tankouw.

Se moun serie kiladan, se pa men zafe kooperativ la, mwen te mete yon ti kob ladan. Anplis desa ginle gwoup sa gen konektion ak focal, fondation prochain PM nan....

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:-AOla63WO-UJ:www.focal.ca/projects/privatesector/corporatesocial/PromoCapital.ppt+Patrice+Backer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca&client=firefox-aOk

www.focal.ca/projects/privatesector/corporatesocial/PromoCapital.ppt
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyMer 23 Juil 2008 - 20:32

The failed Haitian Diaspora Jcharles2
By Jean H Charles, MSW, JD

Mesye Charles se yon Ayisyen ke misye ye. Men repons ke misye by neg ki rele George Grunner sou safe ke Diaspora Ayisyen se yon band pakapab.
Se yon pati ki pli interesan nan atik la ke mwen poste la paske lot pati introdiksyon yo se yon band blablabla pou blan ki pa konn istwa peyi d'Ayiti.

In a letter to the Editor of Caribbean Net News a concerned citizen of the world (George Grunner of Altanta, Georgia) wrote that Haiti a failed state by all indices of good governance “has also produced a failed Diaspora” in the United States. I beg to differ and cry loud: Ah, blaming the victim!


The Haitian Diaspora started with the United Nations sending a contingent of Haitian professionals (doctors, lawyers, and teachers) to Congo Brazzaville to initiate nation building in that country. The same group of technicians migrated to the United States to the United States at the peak of the dictatorial regime of the Duvalier. The Congo experience did not lasted long. Most of the Haitian professionals did not return to Haiti but settled in Quebec, Canada where they have contributed to create a vibrant province.

To the point of being labeled an iconoclast, I dare to argue that the discriminated group of Jews, gay, artists and Haitians constitute a ferment that transform any decaying urban setting into a vibrant neighborhood with or without the support of local government.

Whether in housing, education or work ethics, the Haitian Diaspora has led the black experience into a level of excellence that was not there before. In New York, the neighborhood of Cambria- Heights, Rosedale, Laurelton, Canarsie have become strong and vibrant communities in spite of the hasty white flight from those neighborhoods.

The New York hospital system is sustainable in terms of manpower because of the labor and the expertise of the thousand of Haitian doctors and nurses that man the system day and night.

The colleges and the universities are filled with young Haitian males and females that are setting the tone that scholarship and leadership are not only the province of the white students. The astute Jamaican mothers are keen to snap up those well polished Haitian male graduates for their daughters. The silent revolution of the Haitian Diaspora is spread all over the land,(New York, New Jersey, Boston, Florida, Atlanta) transforming America for the better every day.

The State of the Haitian Diaspora is a mirror of the state of the black experience in the United States, an unfulfilled agenda. The United States might be the best country in the world for a black immigrant or for a black man, period. Yet it remains a racist country where the most innovative initiatives in civil rights took place some twenty five years ago under the administration of Richard Nixon.

(COLA cost of living adjustments for Social Security recipients; self determination without termination for the Indian tribes; SSI Supplementary Security Income; guaranteed annual income for the aged, blind and disabled; National Student Loan Association; National Endowment for the Humanities; set aside for minority contracts putting civil rights on par with affirmative action; revenue sharing programs facilitating urban renewal)

We have not seen better since.

Mr Gunnar, creating an aura of hospitality for the citizens of the land and for those who want to belong has nothing to do with being a Republican or being a Democrat, hopefully, Mr Obama or Mr McCain will both understand that principle and built on the legacy of President Lyndon Johnson (a Democrat) and President Richard Nixon (a Republican) to create an America that is hospitable to all.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:13

Rodlam Sans Malice a écrit:
I beg to differ with this analysis;The author does not know what he is talking about ;therefore he does not deserve an answer.
+1


cependant je reconnais quand même que la diaspora haïtienne n'est pas particulièrement organisée...
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:37

Un manque d'organisation n'est pas nécéssairement une défaite.Ce n'est pas en cinquante ans que les haitiens s'organiseront comme les juifs ou les italiens qui ont une culture differente.Notre relation avec les Etats-Unis n'a pas été toujours harmonieuse.Doit-on rappeler les premières années de notre independance qui n'a pas été reconnue par les americains?

Considerant la discrimination qui existait et qui exsite encore ,considerant les difficultes d'adaption à cause de la langue,comment peut-il dire la diaspora haitienne est une defaite tandis que le Daily News dans les années 70 nous felicitait pour notre discipline et notre civilité.Oui nous pourrions mieux aider notre pays d'origine si nous avions de meilleurs guides,mais il faut compter le nombre des années que nous avions gaspillées à lutter pour deboulonner une dictature retrograde tolérée par le gouvernement des Etats-Unis pour isoler le communisme.On peut dire la seule preoccupation des haitiens durant les decades 60,70,80 etait de nous liberer de cette dictature.80% des travaillleurs haitiens devaient s'occuper de deux familles:l'une restée au pays et celle qui se trouve aux Etats-Unis.Malgré cette charge nous avions eduqué nos enfants, nous nous sommes eduqués pour occuper des fonctions plus importantes au pays d'adoption.

Maintenant ou nous jouissons du fruit de notre travail ou nous pourrions retourner au bercail pour aider nos frères et soeurs on envoie au pays un groupe de delinquants qui destabilisent le pays et creent l'insecurité.Malgré tout nous contribuons au maintien de nos parents et amis.Avant de nous blamer l'auteur devrait tenir compte de notre culture et de nos us et coutumes.Nous n'avons pas encore cette culture d'entrepreneurs et d'investisseurs capables de former des corporations pour augmenter la production nationale.La nouvelle generation prendra soin de cette lacune.Mais en constatant le bilan de nos reussites on ne peut pas dire nous n'avions rien fait.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:54

Rodlam Sans Malice a écrit:
I beg to differ with this analysis;The author does not know what he is talking about ;therefore he does not deserve an answer.

gade ki kote moun sa orijine :Atlanta.Si mesye se yon blan ki orijine de Sid profon an,mwen asire moun sa a gen yon gwo pwobabilite ke se repibliken li vote lan eleksyon.
Mwen ta ajoute ke se moun tankou moun sa a ki sele peyi sa a ak Repibliken yo ki ap anfonse peyi an.Paske ant 70 ak 80% Blan lan Sid yo se repibliken yo vote .Gen de Eta menm se ant 80 ak 90% Blan ki vote repibliken,de Eta tankou Lwizyàn ak Mississipi.
Anvan pou moun konsa ta rele Ayisyen pa konn sa yo vle ,anvan pou l ta retire pay ki lan je ayisyen yo ,se pou l ta eseye retire 2 pa 4 ki lan je l lan.
Lè misye koumanse vote pou Demokrat ,se lè sa a Ayisyen ap koumanse vote pou Repibliken.
Epi se pou yo ta mande tou poukisa Kiben lan florid yo se toujou Repibliken yo vote ,poukisa tou yo pa vote demokrat
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:57

Je suis d'accord Sans Malice la diaspora haïtienne n'est pas sans mérite mais elle n'a certainement pas le niveau d'organisation des autres diasporas connues ^_^ Rien que la diaspora libano-syrienne en Haïti me semble mieux organisée que la nôtre en France, aux Etats-Unis ou au Canada mais je peux me tromper.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:59

Très bonne lecture et riposte, Rodlam!

Pour etre honnete avec vous, je suis en train de lire et relire ce sujet pour bien comprendre la position de l'auteur.

Pour avancer cette thèse, l'auteur devrait faire allusion à un échec culturel et économique.


Du coté culturel, je doute fort que la diaspora haitienne a échoué.
gwotoro, permettez-moi de vous utiliser comme un bon exemple. Regardez ce jeune homme qui est né dans la diaspora, il connait et maitrise la culture haitienne mieux que beaucoup d'indigènes du pays. En d'autres termes, la diaspora haitienne s'arrange à transmettre la culture haitienne de génération en génération en dépit de la distance qui leur sépare de l'alma mater.

Pour l'aspect économique, j'en passe. Sans sa diaspora, l'inflation en Haiti sera pire que celle du Zimbabwe.

Je vais relire l'article et peut-etre je pourrai avoir une meilleure compréhension de ce que l'auteur voulait écrire.


Dernière édition par colocolo le Jeu 24 Juil 2008 - 12:00, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 11:59

La diaspora est comme Haiti divisée par la politique et est incapable de s'organiser à cause des considérations politiques.

Combien de fois ai-je entendu cette phrase de la bouche des haitiens intellectuels comme des ouvriers; Mwen pap chita sou mem tab ak neg sa. se lavalas li ye, se duvalieriste li ye , se moun lan lan en deyo , se analfabet, patati patata...
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 12:02

Colo

Il faut faire une nuance dans l'exemple cité ci-haut et je me rappelle bien ,avoir lu, que Gwotoro a travaillé en Haiti en 1996 à 2000.
J'ai quitté Haiti à 13 ans et je n'ai jamais travaillé en Haiti . Dans ce cas, gwotoro est mieux intégré dans cette société que votre serviteur .
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 12:12

Jude

Avant de blamer les haitiens l'auteur devrait considerer la situation des Afro Americains qui habitent les Etats comme le Mississipi, l'Alabama, la Louisianne,la Georgie etc qui resident au pays depuis des siècles comme Joel vient de le demontrer.Je me rappelle un blanc etait venu chez moi pour me vendre une encyclopedie pour mes enfants.Il m'avait demandé comment les haitiens peuvent realiser tant en si peu de temps :ils ont leurs maisons et eduquent leurs enfants dans les meilleures ecoles de new York tandis que certains blancs qui sont ici depuis longtemps ne peuvent pas faire autant.

Me Charles a bien montré la realisation des haitiens qui maintiennent la valeur des quartiers de New York comme Laurelton, Queens Village, Rego park,Carnasie etc.Combien d'haitiens ont deja payé leur hypotheque sur les maisons qu'ils avaient achetées a la fin des années 60 et au debut des années 70?Si on pouvait evaluer la valeur de ces maisons on comprendrait que nous ne sommes pas des vauriens comme l'auteur l'indique.
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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 13:02

The failed Haitian Diaspora Gse_multipart55324The failed Haitian Diaspora Gse_multipart43332

Michael Donnella, Wesleyan University
Anthony Monroe-President Southern University GOP Baton Rouge Louisiana
resident


http://hbcugop.blogspot.com/2006/12/historically-black-college-or.html

Fok nou komanse voye pitit nou lekol nan South eta yo!! Nan eta di Sud yo gen bon lekol konsevate, o Texas, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Utah. Se pa New York ak Boston, e lot band lekol liberal yo. Fok nou esseye lekol konsevate yo tou. Oral Robert University, Pat Robinson University e tout lot lekol nan Sid yo.


Voici ce que je retenu de l’auteur, George Grunner: The Haitian Diaspora are now slaves to the Democrat Party, black leadership, and white elitists. Without political power, they are simply pawns to these masters. Their life is all about the "social ideology" of the Democrat party.
Diaspora Ayisyen an se ti sousou pati Demokrat la, Black Caucus yo, e blan liberal aktivist yo. Diaspora Ayisyen pa konprand ke san pouvwa politik, yo pa enyen !! Vi yo se pousse agenda ideoloji sosyal pati Democrat yo pou pi devan.

Mwen kwe ke ote atik sa voye yon messaj bay Diaspora Ayisyen. Pati democrat la fe anpil pou Ayisyen men lit e kap fe plis!!
Fok nou diversifye pati n ou e ideoloji politik nou. Esseye voye yon kon d’œil sou paty Repibliken an tou. Nou pa jamb konnen !! Nou kap byen remen yo enpe nan sa ke yo gennyen..


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MessageSujet: Re: The failed Haitian Diaspora   The failed Haitian Diaspora EmptyJeu 24 Juil 2008 - 13:31

"Voici ce que j'ai retenu de l'auteur"Gorges Grunner:The haitian diaspora are now salves to the Democraitc party, black leadership, and white elitists"Revelation

Why do we adhere, as many afro americans, to the democratic party?Is the republican party the same one that Abraham Lincoln adhered to nowadays?Are the democrats responsible for the instability of our country in overthrowing the democratically elected President ?Do the Republicans have a progressive agenda to alleviate the sufferings and discriminations that affect and maintain for so long the majority of our people in inhumane conditions?

We are not stupid ,ignoramuses who can not compare the presidencies of John F kennedy , Lindon Johnson,Jimmy carter , Bill Clinton to those of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Georges Bush the father and the son who speaks of compassionate conservatism while at the same time let the victims of katrina suffer like they were citizens of Soudan,Congo or another third world countries.

Why should we send our children to Oral Roberts University?How many Noble Laureates came from theses universities that you mentionned ?Do you Know how many Nobel Laureates came from the City College of new York?Revelation ,please give me a break with your Oral Robert University.
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