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 Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library

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Super Star
Super Star

Nombre de messages : 4753
Age : 51
Localisation : USA
Opinion politique : Homme de gauche,anti-imperialiste....
Date d'inscription : 21/08/2006

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MessageSujet: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyMar 24 Nov 2009 - 12:32

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Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library

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Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 Vatican%20libratryThe
Vatican Library has added to its collections a South Carolina State
University professor's study on the inculturation of voodoo in a
Catholic Mass.

Associate Professor Dr Robert Grenier was recently informed that his
article, "Werner Jaegerhuber's Messe sur les airs Vodouesques: The
Inculturation of Vodou (Voodoo) in a Catholic Mass," will be included
in the historical collection of the Vatican Library, the Times and
Democrat reports.
In 2008, Grenier's article was published in the Black Music Research Journal.
later submitted copies to the Vatican Library and was informed later
that his article would be included in the library's collection.
"You can imagine my surprise upon receiving the letter postmarked Vatican City," Grenier said.
letter informed me of the reception of my article. It was signed by
Cardinal Raffaele Farina, chief archivist and librarian at the Vatican
article, which took a number of years to complete due to his extensive
research and the necessity of reconstructing the musical score of the
Mass from the surviving manuscripts, describes how Werner Jaegerhuber,
a Haitian-born composer of German extraction, selected elements of
Haitian vodou, or voodoo, and blended them with music inspired by
Gregorian chant to achieve an unprecedented coupling of two opposing
faith traditions.

This odd pairing was inspired by the fact that the Mass was
commissioned to celebrate the sesquicentennial of the founding of
Haiti, the first black republic, in 1804, the Times and Democrat says.
Professor's article part of the Vatican Library's collection (Times and Democrat)

Werner Jaegerhuber's Messe sur les airs vodouesques: the inculturation of Vodou in a Catholic mass.

Jaegerhuber's Messe sur les airs vodouesques is an exceptional creation
due to the unprecedented integration of Haitian Vodou melodies in a
Catholic mass. (1) The composition of the Messe was begun in 1947 and
completed in 1953. Its relatively long period of gestation suggests
that the composer undertook the task on his own initiative. Progress on
this work became known to Jaegerhuber's close friend and artistic
collaborator, Louis Maximilien, (2) who was an influential member of a
committee responsible for organizing the festivities for the 150th
anniversary of Haiti's independence, held on January 1, 1954.
Maximilien, in the name of the committee, commissioned Jaegerhuber to
complete the mass for the ceremonies accompanying the inauguration of
the new cathedral in Les Gonaives, the city where independence was
proclaimed in 1804. The committee responsible for the festivities,
aided by its members who were representatives of the bishopric of
Port-au-Prince and the Order of Spiritan Fathers, approached the bishop
of Les Gonaives, Monseigneur Robert, (3) who, without full knowledge as
to the nature of this composition, reluctantly accepted the concept of
an artistic mass put before him. Jaegerhuber committed his skill to
produce this Mass on Vodou Melodies, considering it an entirely
appropriate work for this commemoration.


However, among Haiti's Catholic clergy as well as some of the laity of
the time there was little tolerance for the integration of elements of
Haitian Vodou into the Roman liturgy. Evidence of this discomfort rests
in the two different names the Messe was given. Initially, the
composer's title directed our attention to the Vodou origin of many of
the themes: Messe sur les airs vodouesques. Its secondary title, Messe
folklorique haitienne, suggested to Jaegerhuber by Louis Maximilien,
attempted to draw attention to a more diffuse perspective by
characterizing the origin of many of its melodies as generally
folkloric and thus potentially less offensive to some. (4) The eventual
refusal of Mgr. Robert to allow the Messe to be sung in his cathedral
when Jaegerhuber's intentions became evident to him attests to what was
considered the improbable merging of Christian and Vodou elements in a
Catholic liturgical work of art. Jaegerhuber's Messe suggested that a
rational bridge could be constructed and traversed from Catholicism to
Vodou. As one of Haiti's Catholic hierarchy most vigorously prosecuting
the antisuperstition campaigns, the prelate could not sanction the
performance of such a work in his cathedral. He, like many in Haiti at
this time, regarded the practice of Vodou as a regrettable element
retarding the advancement of Haitian society. In his own words it was
"a bit of God and a bit of the devil" (Robert 1962, 1206).

The purpose of this article is twofold. In order to illustrate the
originality of Jaegerhuber's achievement it is necessary to describe
the asymmetric relationship between the two principal faith traditions
in the Republic of Haiti. The contentious reception of the Messe
registered among his contemporaries attests to the unresolved nature of
this relationship. The second goal of the article rests in an
understanding of what Jaegerhuber achieved in the Messe itself or in
other words, how he, through a work of art, could propose a resolution
to this enduring asymmetry. The first obstacle to this goal is that the
composer left no written account as to his intentions regarding this
work, whether social, artistic, or otherwise. As a result, the score
becomes the principal venue to develop our understanding. However, here
there is an additional obstacle, since no authorized published edition
is available nor even a manuscript that, with assurance, may be
ascribed to the hand of the composer. What has been preserved in the
archives of the Societe de recherche et de diffusion de la musique
haitienne in Montreal are two different scores. One score consists of
the choral solo parts prepared for the participants at its creation.
The second is a twenty-three page full score presenting both the organ
and choral/solo parts. Since these two sources differ in several
respects, most notably in the formal structure of the Agnus Dei, it has
been necessary for the purpose of this article to produce an edition
that, while acknowledging these differences, attempts to profitably
combine elements from both and reasonably resolve the differences
between contending versions.

Based on this edition one may begin to identify elements consistent
with what the original title contends: a mass on Vodou melodies.
However, a brief examination of the Messe reveals that Vodou melodies
only form a small but important portion of the material on which
Jaegerhuber relied to compose this work. It is clear that the composer
contributed his own original melodies as well as importing elements
from the Gregorian tradition. Both of Jaegerhuber's sources in Vodou
and the Gregorian tradition were mined not only for a specific melody
but also, more generally, by referencing a characteristic texture,
rhythm, and conventional practice. At no point is there a fusion of the
Gregorian and Vodou traditions if by this it is meant that the composer
contrapuntally superimposes the musical elements of each or otherwise
commingles them into a single auditory experience. Rather, he lets one
tradition predominate while using the other, if at all, to effect a
contrast in a manner that contributes to articulating the structure of
a movement. The identification of each of these elements frees us to
speculate as to Jaegerhuber's artistic choices as these relate to the
Latin mass. Indeed, it is at this juncture where, for example, a Vodou
melody is now adapted to bear the words of the Roman liturgy, that the
issue of inculturation of one tradition by another is raised. (5) It is
also here, in this newly minted contrafactum, that the asymmetry
between these traditions is challenged. Thus, Jaegerhuber's selection
and arrangement of elements derived from Haitian Vodou and inculturated
within the Roman liturgy becomes the subject of a rational appreciation
of this enterprise.

Evidence of the inculturation of Vodou elements in the Messe implies a
theological dimension in our discussion where, at some level,
Jaegerhuber intuits a link between an aspect of the Vodou religion and
a specific moment, textual or liturgical, in the Roman liturgy and its
Biblical sources. Once identified, the appropriateness of a link may be
assessed. While what Jaegerhuber actually intended may never be known
for certain, given the resources at hand and the speculative nature of
this endeavor, the succession of these events in the Messe may give
rise, nevertheless, to a musicotheological subtext that threads its way
through the course of the work and speaks to his imaginative adaptation
of both faith traditions.

As stated above, the Messe was greeted by many of Jaegerhuber's
contemporaries with such antipathy that he changed the name of his work
in order to disguise his original intentions. It was correctly
understood by all that the composer was attempting to link in a single
work of art elements of two faith traditions that for centuries shared
an uneasy coexistence. This unease can be traced to their historic
encounter where the religion "of those who serve the lwa" (6) had
inculturated aspects of Catholic ritual and iconography while
Catholicism entirely avoided a similar encroachment. The reason for
this asymmetric rapport is that Catholicism simply failed to fully
evangelize the great number of enslaved Africans in the colonial era.
Several factors contribute to an explanation of this situation.

The state of the Catholic Church in Saint-Domingue during the later
half of the eighteenth century presents us with an image of material
and spiritual poverty. In 1785 it was reported that half the churches
and rectories had to be rebuilt and an inventory of musical instruments
in the parishes of that period records that few had any organs. What
few there may have been were small positives as indicated by the period
documentation and advertisements announcing their sale and repair
(Camier 2004).
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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyDim 29 Nov 2009 - 10:28

deza a écrit:

Ki sa blan a ap rakonte konsa. Pou ki sa fatige'l ke franse'm pa bon. Mwen al menen ankèt e pèsonn pa konprann ki sa misye vinn di apa ke se divize li pati pou li divize Ayisyen. Alor si yon neg ou yon negrès se lavalas sa sifi pou mwen vire do ba li. Si moun la ap fè byen si li ap fè jefo mwen pa sipoze bal bourad paske li se lavalas. Tande yon nèg ki chita ap vomi fyèl e pi l'ap di ke moun egri. Gade non papa, pa gen pèsonn ki ta renmen lan eta w ye la. Anplis de sa, w plafonen. W pa ka vini ak bon enfómasyon, w pa ka konprann pou ki sa moun ap goumen. W pa sipoze espere projte état d'âme w sou lot moun. W chita ap ekri fransot san ke w pa di anyen. Zanmi w yo jenen pou yo di w non paske yo te kwè ke w te pote kichoy. Tout entensyon w jiska prezan se divizyon w bezwen mete lan mitan Ayisyen paske w gen yon foli fou. W pap sis ti mal. Men kwa manman w men kwa papa w vinn pile'l. Ayiti p'ap mouri.

W pa wè ke w anpeche moun vinn sou forum la. W pa remake ke w bloke echanj yo. W se yon bad trip. Pa gen neg ki bezwen retounen an aryè. Pa fache mon chè, mwen se your #1 fan. Mwen jis mande w pou fè yon ti efor menm si m'konen ke w pa lan eta ni fizik ni mantal pou fè'l.

Pase yon bon dimanch. Pa bwè trop non.
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Super Star
Super Star

Nombre de messages : 17260
Localisation : USA
Loisirs : Histoire
Date d'inscription : 24/08/2006

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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyDim 29 Nov 2009 - 10:32

Joel a écrit:

Mwen trouve ke forum la te amuzan. Se bel bagay lè yon moun admet ke li te fè erè. Nèg sa bay manti, kapasite misye nul. Li pa pote anyen ki pozitif sou forum la. O kontrè depi li rive li jis pati pou li divize Ayisyen. Mwen pa mande pou moun pense menm jan ak mwen men menm si yon moun se advesè'm, mwen dwe'l respek. Mwen remake ke menm neg ki pa vle wè lavalas kanpe lwen neg ki gen foli fou yo. Misye pa bon menm.

Wi Pierre,
Se sa ki fè,mwen twouve ekstrawòdinè ke Marc pa reyalize sa w di an.
Se de pa t de politik sèlman nou te konn pale, anvan mesye sa yo vin sou fowòm lan.
Mesye sa yo ,kelkelanswa de sa w ap pale ;yo vire l sou yon zafè de lavalas ak Kongo.
Tankou m te di l ,mesye sa yo se lan TAZANN ak TINTINyo te pran enfòmasyon yo.
Sa k pi rèd lan moun ki te ekri liv sa yo ou byen te pibliye yo ,prezante eskiz yo pou mal yo pèsevwa yo te fè.
Epitou Pap lan te rankontre VODUN lan ,an 1994,li te prezante l eskiz pou tò relijyon katolik lan te fè relijyon Vodou an.

Vodun aktyèl lan (gran prèt Vodou lan Benin) ,mwen kwè se XVII ,de yon dinasti ki date de ane 1500s yo.

Tikrik ,ti krak ;zòt konn pale franse;a kilès l ap pale?
Mwen kontinye ap repete ke pèp Ayisyen an genyen pou l mete franse de kote;yon lang ki pa itil peyi anyen.

Li ap fè menm jan ke VIETNAM ki te koloni franse te fè;e menm jan ke PAUL KAGAME sot fè lan Rwanda ,ane ki sot pase an.

Lan Vietnam ke se an 1954 ke li te pran endepandans lan men franse yo;sou 30 moun ki ap aprann lang etranjè jounen jodi an,29 ap aprann angle,1 ap aprann franse.
Premye lang peyi sa a se vyetnamyen,yon lang ki pa t "evolye" menm jan ak Kreyòl nou an.
M ap repete l ,se pou MARC reyalize ke mesye sa yo ap touye fowòm lan!
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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyDim 29 Nov 2009 - 11:46

De plus en plus ,je crois que les lavalassiens -j'admets qu'ils soient des incapables et de souche impure - sont des mutants congos qui n'arrivent pas a se convaincre qu'ils vivent de l'ivresse de leur illusion et de l'aigreur de toute une vie marquee par la defaite et le poids hypnotique de tous les ressentiments du monde .

Je ne plaisante pas avec le bonheur de mon pays .Des gens qui assument le droit de le detruire a travers l 'adoption d'ideologies anarchiques et apatrides ne meritent pas la peine de vivre .Ils sont des congos et ces brutes de l'esprit ont commence a nous trahir depuis l'aube des guerres de l'Independance .Nos ancetres l'ont su et avaient commence a prendre les mesures adequates pour nous protegerr de leur presence infame et dangereuse .Helas !

Voius aviez ete trop genereux dans votre desir sublime d'unifier la nation . Aujiourd'hui ils ont pietine avec rage et mepris les sacrifices de nos ancetres en invitant l'Etranger d'autrefois,toujours avide a morceller notre territoire et nous ensegner les chants de la liberte qui portent les marques de notre bravoure et de notre courage . Les melodies de libete sont l'apanage de l'Haitien Creole qui a brise ses chaines la ou tous les faux-prophetes avaient predi sa deroute .

Les Joel, les sans malice ,les pierre et leurs allies de l'enfer d'ou ils sont sortis, remplis de fiel ,de rancune et d'idees de vengeance sont les mutants congos qui sont toujours prets a plonger un poignasrd empoisonne dans le dos du pays bienfaiteur .Ils sont les disciples sans foi ni loi de leur maitre a penser , le fameux defroque Jean-Bertrand Aristique, la manifestation d'un mal nouveau qui a frappe le pays ,qui le ronge comme un cancer, et qui a jure sa perte .

Esprit de Dessalinnes ,de Christophe et de Petion !Reveillez vous nobles guerriers pour insuffler a vos fils et filles le courage qui leur manque pour terminer votre oeuvre de regeneration de la societe haitienne sans la presence des congos .Vos sentiments veritables a l'egard de cette race de viperes sont une verite historique .Nous avions erre en l'oubliant ,en leur offrant la generosite de la fraternite .Ils n'ont pas change :

Ils portent les memes couleurs d'hier de la traitrise et de la trahison .Qu'ils perissent maintenant pour que nous soyons heureux !
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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyDim 29 Nov 2009 - 11:49

Tande non, mwen ta renmen konn ki sa k'ap pase. Yèroswa mwen te pase sou sit la apre sa mwen gen program ki pat ka konksyone akoz de virus. Mwen pa konprann. Gen lè gen san zave ki ap seye antre lan odinatè a. Erezman mwen pran prekosyon ak bandi kravate sa yo. Piga move neg chita ap voye virus paske se tan yo y'ap pedi.

Sou kestyon de lang franse a. Joel, mwen tou tankou w tankou lot neg, tout moun konn sa ki lang franse a. Men mwen konprann byen ki sa w vle di, mwen konprann klèman enbesilite sa kreye kay yon bann neg ak kay ti vagabon ki ap suiv yo. Mwen pa kwè ke se yon bon lide pou jenn Ayisyen. Mon chè wo, neg sa yo ban'm degoutans ekri franse ki ta sipoze yon zouti. Aloske zouti sipoze yon bagay itil. Jan sa ye la, franse pa itil neg yo paske an patan yo pa gen anyen poudi. Mwen dako ak anpil sa w di yo men gen de ka ke se pa fot lang franse a non, se paske neg yo te deja mal. Lè jenn gason ap grandi e ke tout sa ki enterese yo se maji, wanga ak lajan, w pa bezwen al grate anpil pou wè bagay ki repousan.

Peyi a pa bezwen moun aryere sa yo ki ap di ke yo konn li pase yon lot. Tankou m'ap redi'l ankor, se ta yon premye sign entèlijans si yon seri de moun te ka konprann ke yo pap brye menm. Sa tris anpil. Nèg pa konprann ke pèsonn pa enterese a ekzèsis ekriti li an. Yon seri de ti formil pou fè tèt fèbl vire. Forum la deja kraze menm si sa pa vle di ke li paka reprann byen. Sa pa mande anpil, se jis pou yon seri de neg aprann wont, ke yo admèt ke yo fè erè, e pi ke se pa abriti ki ka janm soufle korn lanbi pou fè rasanbleman. Nou pa kwè lan salopri divizyon menm. Nou pa kwè lan nivelman par le bas men nou ap goumen pou jistis. La jistis se progrè sa ye. Nèg ki finn plafonen sipoze bay peyi a yon chans.

Yo gaga nèt. An reyalite, c'est le jour du seigneur. Anba tafya deja. Tande non, pouvwa ak tafya se parèy, se pa tout moun ki ka kontrole sa. Anpil amertume, anpil projeksyon. Adye
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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyDim 29 Nov 2009 - 12:23

Le navire forumhaiti bat des voiles et file vers les horizons des connaissances superieures qui raffinent l'ame et l'intelligence .En ce qui concerne les vertus de la marine universelle nous savons que les nobles etres qui restent a bord pour sauver femmes et enfants durant un desastre sont des braves dignes de vivre dans la memoire des hommes . Ceux qui s'enfuient a toute vitesse sans porter secours aux plus faibles des passagers sont les sales rats du parasitisme ,de l'opportunisme et de l'egoisme .

Dans la nature ,on les voit souvent ces rongeurs qui nous apportent toutes sortes de maladie apres le passage destructeur de l'eau sale et violente lavalasse .Sur forumhaiti,ils ont tous conserve leur nature de bete nuisible et repoussante bien qu'ils se manifestent sous des noms differents .Ils ne peuvent jamais s'empecher de retourner sur les lieux du carnage pour s'approprier du bien d'autrui ou depecer les cadavres .La vue du lavalassien meme apres toilette vous donne la nausee .Les ecrits incoherents de ce secte assassin et imbecile trahissent son essence :
Barbarie , mensonges ehontes , coups en traitre et trahison..
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Localisation : Haiti
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Date d'inscription : 21/01/2012

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MessageSujet: Re: Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library   Dedie a Joel/Voodoo music study makes Vatican Library - Page 2 EmptyMar 13 Mar 2012 - 14:11

Great infos !
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